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Talk:Clement Attlee, 1st Earl Attlee
I recall some excitement that we'd be able to write this article--sure isn't much to it, is there? Turtle Fan 23:01, 21 August 2008 (UTC) :We shoulda' knowed betta'. TR 23:11, 21 August 2008 (UTC) Attlee, the "new" PM in JS In the scene in Wakamatsu, which is set in the late summer of 1946, Attlee is described as the "new" PM. In OTL, the UK election took place in July, 1945. I don't think most people consider someone who has been in office for over a year to be the "new guy", so I'm inclined to think that Attlee got the job a year later. But I'm also aware of the fact that HT can sometimes commit an error in his work, and used "new" inappropriately. Or maybe Charlie Sullivan (the POV for the scene) is that one guy who thinks a year in office still qualifies Attlee as the "new guy". In any event, I was going to change the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom page to create a JS section; a year isn't a huge change, but it's worth noting in the line of succession. But I thought I'd open it up for debate after reconsidering the counter-arguments. TR (talk) 17:10, September 11, 2015 (UTC) :I just reread the scene in Wakamatsu. It strikes me more as artistic license since that is the first time Turtledove addressed the British PM since 1945. VE Day was at the same time as OTL and the removal of Labour support seems to be triggered by that (and the lack of elections for almost a decade). I'm not clear if they would have known about the nuclear weapons that resulted in the Japanese surrender in August or they expected a long, drawn out Operation: Downfall but it seems to me that the British elections would have occurred on the same schedule as OTL. ML4E (talk) 19:21, September 11, 2015 (UTC) ::Brief Googling did not yield an answer as to how much Attlee knew about the A-bomb, but since Trinity hadn't taken place when Attlee pushed for election, the A-bomb was not a factor. Certainly, the issues OTL issues you point out were still present in JS: 10 years between elections and VE day. And, as you say, HT may have simply dropped the "new" in because it had been several pages and a story-year since he mentioned the UK. As I think of it, that's probably happened. ::Now, in OTL, Churchill did suggest a continuation of the coalition government until Japan was dealt with, and obviously Attlee said no. But in a world where Britain was allied with two repressive dictatorships with substantial industrial capacity, maybe Attlee reconsidered. But this is speculative on my part. ::Anyway, I am persuaded by the counter-arguments. I'll leave page alone and assume that Attlee won in 1945. TR (talk) 19:50, September 11, 2015 (UTC) Viscount Cranborne Jonathan had substituted the "Viscount Cranborne" redirect for Robert Gascoyne-Cecil, 5th Marquess of Salisbury in an OTL succession table. However, the redirect is for The War That Came Early sub-section. I think this illustrates the danger of such ambiguously named redirects and should be discouraged starting with the deletion of this one. ML4E (talk) 17:48, June 11, 2016 (UTC) :Yes. Jonathan's leap-before-you-look approach to our project continues to be a trial. Turtle Fan (talk) 18:22, June 11, 2016 (UTC) Armistice Spoiler :At least HT acknowledges Attlee. As you pointed out, that wasn't a given. :BTW, TF, I did set up a spoiler space if want to keep spoilers all in one place. TR (talk) 21:55, July 4, 2017 (UTC) ::Sorry! I'll do that. Turtle Fan (talk) 02:09, July 5, 2017 (UTC) ::Actually, it's not there. I'm getting a "Bad Title" page. Turtle Fan (talk) 02:10, July 5, 2017 (UTC) :::Let's try this. http://turtledove.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:32065. I think that should work. TR (talk) 02:53, July 5, 2017 (UTC) ::::I'll use that. Turtle Fan (talk) 22:19, July 5, 2017 (UTC) PM at end of Hot War I don't know that we can say he's incumbent at series' end, 1/1/1953. We see him as PM in June or July 1952, but he could have been voted out in a snap election in, say, October or November.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 15:08, August 8, 2019 (UTC) :We have no reason to think a snap election took place, so we can say that he's the incumbent. TR (talk) 15:34, August 8, 2019 (UTC) ::Indeed. When WWII ended, the Parliament that had presided over it was already twice as old as a full term would allow. When WWIII ended, the Parliament that had presided over it was only half as old. Turtle Fan (talk) 23:24, August 8, 2019 (UTC) ::Compared to OTL, I don't see a snap election occurring. In OTL Attlee, after the Feb. 1950 election, had a slim majority of 315 seats to the opposition 307 (298 (Con) + 9 (Lib)). His standing took a beating from the Korean War and the resulting austerity to pay for it so he called a snap election (as was his right under parliamentary rules of the day) in Oct. 1951 but lost. Since he is in power in mid-1952, he clearly hadn't called an election and a typical four year mandate means he needn't call one until around Feb. 1954. The most reasonable scenario would be to try to hold onto power and rebuild popularity. So it is most reasonable that he was still in power six months after we saw him last. ML4E (talk) 17:34, August 9, 2019 (UTC)